Cam Lo Nam Map "Borders"

TheDUDE

Does anyone have a rough idea of what the country borders would roughly be on the Cam Lo Nam map? I've been trying to guestimate it but was hoping someone here might have a more precise idea of where these borders would supposedly be located.

NightIntruder

I didn't check but need this as well. One way to find the answer by yourself is to compare the locations of towns and villages. The majority of map tools on the internet has some search engine to facilitate that.

stormridersp

What I have found is that it is pretty difficult to find a relation between this map and the real thing. It's perhaps based on and definitely looks like the real thing, but it's very scaled down and distorted with playability in mind. From Hanoi to Saigon, it's only 10km versus 1000km in the real scale. It wouldn't be my first choice if I was modeling it, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. Among other things, there are always arma's game engine limitations to narrow down development options. On top of that, if its was the real scale, think that the only A Shau Valley itself would already fill up the entire map area.

I'd recommend that you don't try to think of it in a historical accurate representation when making scenarios, but instead, use it as is.

IceBreakr

Border with China is supposed to be where road ends and where the demolished train tunnel is, basically on North where map ends or few 100m before.

That goes same for West side border, while internal borders are more based on rivers and mountain chains.

NightIntruder

stormridersp wrote:
I'd recommend that you don't try to think of it in a historical accurate representation when making scenarios, but instead, use it as is.

Agree. I was more like "don't want to freak IceBreakr off, so if he put there any border, I better use it" 😉

TheDUDE

IceBreakr wrote:
Border with China is supposed to be where the road ends and where the demolished train tunnel is, basically on North where the map ends or a few 100m before.

That goes the same for the Westside border, while internal borders are more based on rivers and mountain chains.

Thank you for answering my question. I'm not trying to be too overly accurate with the borders in my mission, just was wondering out of my own curiosity.

ShadowVVolf

Surprised to see a new thread on this topic with actual responses!
The older thread is Intended Border of Cambodia, Laos, North & South Vietnam.

I posted this question in the last interview video and am hoping to get an answer from their spokesperson on the next live video.

TheDUDE

ShadowVVolf wrote:
Surprised to see a new thread on this topic with actual responses!
The older thread is Intended Border of Cambodia, Laos, North & South Vietnam.

I posted this question in the last interview video and am hoping to get an answer from their spokesperson on the next live video.

Your post is what got my mind working and trying to find an answer. I actually spelled the map name wrong while searching and couldn't find your post again, hence me opening this one up. I would really like to know what the intended borders are supposed to be considering how important they are to the story of MACV-SOG. I hope we get an official answer soon.

ShadowVVolf

Here's the things I know for a fact based on mission area tags and real life counterparts.

Cambodia Areas: Sihanoukville, Ling Ho Spring, Thung Lung Cao, & Lumphat

Laos Areas: Attapeu, Nong Khiaw, Plain of Jars, MSS Leghorn, & Mu Gia Pass (Border pass between Vietnam and Laos)

South Vietnam Areas: Saigon, Da Nang, FSB Quan Loi, Phu Quoc, A Shau Valley, Da Krong, La Hot, A Lieng, Hue, Khe Gio Valley / FSB Khe Gio (Area is just south of DMZ IRL), & Paradise Island (SSPL name for Cù Lao Chàm)

North Vietnam Areas: Hanoi, Hai Phong, Ha Long Bay, Thud Ridge, & Lai Chau

Unsure but exists IRL: South Vietnam - Long Hai (IRL on the other side of the Mekong Delta), North Vietnam - Dao Phai (IRL between Hanoi & Hai Phong), Myanmar(Burma) - Kenglat / Khamkeut District, Bolikhamsai, Laos - Ban Kenglat (Both exist and Myanmar's is more well known and labeled on google maps)

DMZ Area: The DMZ has a visible shelled area south of Hai Phong and north of the Khe Gio Valley, however because it does not follow a river like it did IRL you can only guess past the visible area.

So far this map is my best estimate on the borders:

TheDUDE

Thanks for this, ShadowWolf. This is exactly what I was hoping to find when starting this thread.

eggbeast

ShadoWolf - that is about right for our own mental picture of how the map is laid out - well done!

ShadowVVolf

eggbeast wrote:
ShadoWolf - that is about right for our own mental picture of how the map is laid out - well done!

Cool, thank you for the confirmation.

I was surprised to see Myanmar(Burma) snuck into the map, its coverage area is quite large based on using the river as a border like its real life counterpart.

eggbeast

Well I've never considered wha tthat part of the map would be, just assumed it was northern Laos.
In campaign terms, it's treated as the Prairie Fire AO, which is just a 15 mile wide strip of eastern Laos.

ShadowVVolf

eggbeast wrote:
Well I've never considered wha tthat part of the map would be, just assumed it was northern Laos.
In campaign terms, it's treated as the Prairie Fire AO, which is just a 15 mile wide strip of eastern Laos.

Ok that's the feeling I got from the missions, but when I was going through verifying location names with real life counterparts and Kenglat showed up as Myanmar(Burma) border town I had a hard time justifying keeping that whole area as Laos.

However I did just find an obscure village called Ban Kenglat in the Khamkeut District, Bolikhamsai, Laos if that is supposed to be the reference instead.

Corrected Map

eggbeast

that looks really good now for what we intended.
One minor adjustment - we have the Red River (through Hanoi) as the border of North Vietnam in the west of the map, currently you're drawing it through the montagnard highlands and Bru villages.

ShadowVVolf

eggbeast wrote:
that looks really good now for what we intended.
One minor adjustment - we have the Red River (through Hanoi) as the border of North Vietnam in the west of the map, currently you're drawing it through the montagnard highlands and Bru villages.

Oh good thank you, I thought I found a reference somewhere that Rung Cung was in North Vietnam but I couldn't confirm.

Was Dao Trai and Dao Phai to the left of that included in South Vietnam as well?

eggbeast

If you link your DMZ border to the Red River when it meanders south, and then run the border along the river until it hits your Laotian border, that would be about what we expected.

ShadowVVolf

eggbeast wrote:
If you link your DMZ border to the Red River when it meanders south, and then run the border along the river until it hits your Laotian border, that would be about what we expected.

Thank you so much for the direction on the borders!

I follow the mountain range to the river from the DMZ and where I'm not sure of is where the River splits at the Dao Phai Island.

Dao Phai Exclusion

Dao Phai Inclusion

Do you have any other tips for the Laos Border?

eggbeast

Either looks good.
My only other point is in terms of river names.

Hue - Perfume River
Hanoi - Red River
near Saigon - Mekong River
Dividing Laos and Vietnam - Tchepone River

ShadowVVolf

@eggbeast

You read my mind, the next question was going to be on the riverway names!

You say the Tchepone River divides Laos and Vietnam but my current map has their division running through the mountains to accommodate Attapeu and the Mu Gia Pass.

Do the borders immediately come back to the river after accommodating these features?

Legend
Orange - Red River
Light Green - Mekong River
Light Brown - Tchepone River
Pink - Perfume River
Purple - Cam Lo River

Unknown
Yellow - Dua Hai Spring?
Dark Blue - Ling Ho Spring?
Brown - ?
Red Brown - ?
Blue - ?
Light Blue - ?
Red - ?
North Grey/Black - ?
Central Grey/Black - ?
South Grey/Black - ?
Green - ?

Color Coded River Ways